【问与答】婚姻与贞洁是否相容?

问与答】婚姻与贞洁是否相容？

传送门2014-11-13 克里希那穆提冥思坊

Question: Is marriage compatible with chastity?

问：婚姻与贞洁是否相容？

Krishnamurti: Let us together explore this question. Many things are involved in it. Chastity is not the product of the mind. Chastity doesn't come through discipline. Chastity is not an ideal to be achieved. That which is the product of the mind, which is created by the mind, is not chaste; because the mind, when it creates the ideal of chastity, is escaping from what is; and a mind which is attempting to become chaste, is unchaste. That is one thing. We will explore it presently.

克：让我们一起来探索这个问题，其中涉及了很多东西。贞洁不是头脑的产物，贞洁不是通过戒律而来的，贞洁也并非一个要去实现的理想。作为思想产物的东西，是头脑制造出来的，它并不贞洁，因为当头脑树立了贞洁的理想，它就是在逃避此刻的事实；而一个试图变得贞洁的头脑，是不纯洁的。这是一件事，我们马上就来探讨这一点。

Then, in this question there is involved the problem of our sexual appetites, the whole problem of sex. Let us find out why for most of us sex has become a problem. And also, how is it possible to meet the sexual demand intelligently and not turn it into a problem?

然后在这个问题中还涉及了我们的性欲这个问题，这整个性的问题。让我们来搞清楚为什么对我们大多数人来说性变成了一个问题。还有，怎样才可能智慧地应对性需求而不会把它变成一个问题？

Now, what do we mean by sex? The purely physical act, or the thought that excites, stimulates, furthers that act? Surely, sex is of the mind; and because it is of the mind, it must seek fulfillment, or there is frustration. Do not be nervous about the subject. You have all become very tense, I see. Let us talk it over as though it were any other subject. Don't look so grave and lost! Let us deal with this subject very simply and directly. The more complex a subject is. the more it demands clear thinking, the more must it be approached simply and directly.

那么，我们所说的性是什么意思？是纯粹的身体活动，还是激发、刺激、促进了那种活动的思想？毫无疑问，性是属于头脑的；而由于它属于头脑，它必然会寻求满足，否则就会感到挫败。不要对这个话题感到紧张。我发现你们都变得很紧张。让我们来好好谈谈这个问题，就好像它是一个别的随便什么话题一样。不要看起来那么沉重，那么茫然！让我们非常简单、非常直接地来处理这个问题。一个问题越是复杂，它就越是需要清晰的思考，就越需要简单地、直接地着手。

Why is it that sex has become such a problem in our lives? Let us go into it, not with constraint, not with anxiety, fear, condemnation. Why has it become a problem? Surely, for most of you it is a problem. Why? Probably, you have never asked yourself why it is a problem. Let us find out.

为什么性变成了我们生活中如此显著的一个问题？让我们来探究一下，不要感到拘束，也别带着焦虑、恐惧和谴责。为什么它成了一个问题？毫无疑问，对我们大多数人来说它是个问题。为什么？也许你从来没有问过自己它为什么是一个问题。让我们来搞清楚。

Sex is a problem because it would seem that in that act there is complete absence of the self. In that moment you are happy, because there is the cessation of self-consciousness, of the me; and desiring more of it, more of the abnegation of the self in which there is complete happiness - without the past or the future demanding that complete happiness through full fusion, integration - ,naturally it becomes all-important. Isn't that so? Because it is something that gives me unadulterated joy, complete self forgetfulness, I want more and more of it.

性之所以成了问题，是因为似乎在那种活动中是完全没有自我的。在那一刻你很开心，因为自我意识、“我”停止了；而想要得到更多的这种体验，更多有着全然快乐的自我摒弃——在通过充分的融合、结合来得到那种全然的快乐时，既没有过去也没有未来——自然它就变得无比重要了，不是吗？因为它是某种能带给我不掺杂质的喜悦和彻底忘我的东西，所以我希望得到的越多越好。

Now, why do I want more of it? Because, everywhere else I am in conflict, everywhere else, at all the different levels of existence, there is the strengthening of the self. Economically, socially, religiously, there is the constant thickening of self-consciousness, which is conflict. After all, you are self-conscious only when there is conflict. Self-consciousness is in its very nature the result of conflict. So, everywhere else, we are in conflict. In all our relationships with property, with people, with ideas, there is conflict, pain, struggle, misery; but in this one act there is complete cessation of all that. Naturally you want more of it, because it gives you happiness, while all the rest leads you to misery, turmoil, conflict, confusion, antagonism, worry, destruction, therefore the sexual act becomes all significant, all-important.

那么，为什么这方面我想要得到更多？因为在其他所有的领域我都身陷冲突，在生活的各个不同层面上都存在对自我的加强。经济上、社会上、宗教上都存在对自我意识的不断加强，而自我意识就是冲突。毕竟，只有当存在冲突时你才有自我意识。自我意识究其本质就是冲突的产物。所以，在其他所有的领域，我们都身陷冲突。在我们与财产、与人们、与观念的所有关系中，都存在冲突、痛苦、挣扎和不幸；但唯独在这个活动中，那一切都彻底停止了。自然你想要得到更多，因为它给了你快乐，而其他的一切都将你引向不幸、混乱、冲突、困惑、敌对、忧虑、破坏，因此性行为变得极其重要、无比重要。

So, the problem is not sex, surely, but how to be free from the self. You have tasted that state of being in which the self is not, if only for a few seconds, if only for a day, or what you will; and where the self is, there is conflict, there is misery, there is strife. So, there is the constant longing for more of that self-free state. But the central problem is the conflict at different levels, and how to abnegate the self. You are seeking happiness, that state in which the self, with all its conflicts, is not, which you find momentarily in that act. Or, you discipline yourself, you struggle, you control, you even destroy yourself through suppression; which means, you are seeking to be free of conflict, because with the cessation of conflict there is joy. If there can be freedom from conflict, then there is happiness, at all the different levels of existence.

所以，毫无疑问，问题不在于性，而在于如何从自我中解脱出来。你尝到了自我不在的那种存在状态，即使只有几秒钟，即使只有一天或者无论多长；而当自我存在时，就会有冲突，就会有痛苦，就会有争斗。所以人们不断渴望体验更多那种摆脱了自我的境界。但核心问题是存在于各个不同层面上的冲突，以及如何摒弃自我。你在追求幸福，追求那种自我连同它所有的冲突都不复存在的状态，而那种状态你在那种行为中能够短暂地找到。要么你约束自己，你努力，你控制，你甚至通过压抑来摧毁自己；也就是说，你寻求摆脱冲突，因为冲突止息了才有喜悦。如果能够从冲突中解脱，幸福就会出现在各个不同的生存层面上。

What makes for conflict? How does this conflict arise, in your work, in your relationships, in teaching, in everything? Even when you write a poem, even when you sing, when you paint, there is conflict.

是什么造成了冲突？这种冲突是如何在你的工作中、在你的关系中、在教育中、在一切中产生的？甚至当你写一首诗，当你唱歌，当你画画时，冲突依然存在。

How does this conflict come into being? Does it not come into being through the desire to become? You paint, you want to express yourself through colour, you want to be the best painter. You study, worry, hope that the world will acclaim your painting. But, wherever there is the desire to become the more, there must be conflict. It is the psychological urge that demands the more. The need for more is psychological, the urge for the more exists when the psyche, the mind, is becoming, seeking, pursuing an end, a result.

这种冲突是如何产生的？它难道不是通过“成为什么”的欲望产生的吗？你画画，你想通过色彩来表达自己，你想成为最棒的画家。你学习，你不安，你希望世界称赞你的画作。然而，只要你心存想要变得更加如何的欲望，冲突就必然会存在。正是强烈的心理欲望想要得到更多。想要更多的需求是心理上的，当心智、心灵在成为什么，在寻找、在追求一个目标、一个结果，就会存在想要更加如何的渴望。

When you want to be a Mahatma, when you want to be a saint, when you want to understand, when you are practising virtue, when you are class-conscious as a 'superior' entity, when you subserve function to heighten yourself - all these are indications, obviously, of a mind that is becoming. The more, therefore, is conflict. A mind which is seeking the more, is never conscious of what is, because it is always living in the more - in what it would like to be, never in what is. Until you resolve the whole content of that conflict, this one release of the self, through sex, will remain a hideous problem.

当你想成为一个圣人，当你想变成一位圣徒，当你希望领悟，当你练习美德，当你心存作为一个“上等人”的阶级意识，当你为了抬高自己而推动职责的行使——显然所有这些都显示出了一颗想要成为什么的心。因此，“更加如何”就是冲突。寻求“更加如何”的心，永远无法意识到“现在如何”，因为它始终活在“更加如何”之中——活在它“希望如何”当中，从来没有活在“现在如何”当中。除非你消除了那种冲突的全部内容，否则通过性这条唯一的途径来释放自我，仍将是一个可怕的问题。

Sirs, the self is not an objective entity that can be studied under the microscope, or learned through books, or understood through quotations, however weighty those quotations may be. It can be understood only in relationship. After all, conflict is in relationship, whether with property, with an idea, with your wife, or with your neighbour; and without solving that fundamental conflict, merely to hold onto that one release through sex, is obviously to be unbalanced. And that is exactly what we are. We are unbalanced, because we have made sex the one avenue of escape; and society, so-called modern culture, helps us to do it. Look at the advertisements, the cinemas, the suggestive gestures, postures, appearances.

先生们，自我并不是一个客观的实体，可以放在显微镜下研究，或者通过书本来学习，也不能借助引经据典来了解，无论那些引用看起来多么有份量。它只能在关系中得到了解。毕竟，冲突存在于关系当中，无论是与财产、与观念的关系，还是与你的妻子、丈夫或邻居的关系；如果不解决那些最基本的冲突，只是抓住性这一条释放途径，显然是失衡的。而这恰恰是我们实际的样子。我们是失衡的，因为我们把性变成了一条逃避的渠道；而社会，所谓的现代文化，助长了我们的这种做法。看看那些广告、电影，看看各种让人浮想联翩的姿态、姿势和装扮。

Most of you married when you were quite young, when the biological urge was very strong. You took a wife or a husband, and with that wife or husband you jolly well have to live for the rest of your life. Your relationship is merely physical, and everything else has to be adjusted to that. So what happens? You are intellectual, perhaps, and she is very emotional. Where is your communion with her? Or she is very practical, and you are dreamy, vague, rather indifferent. Where is the contact between you and her? You are over-sexed, and she is not; but you use her because you have rights. How can there be communion be tween you and her when you use her? Our marriages are now based on that idea, on that urge; but more and more there are contradictions and great conflicts in marriage, and so divorces.

你们大部分人都在很年轻的时候就结婚了，那时生理上的欲望非常强烈。你找了个妻子或者丈夫，然后大可跟那个妻子或者丈夫共度余生。你们的关系只是身体上的，其他的一切都得适应这一点。那会怎么样？也许你很理性，而她非常情绪化。你和她哪里能融合？或者她很实际，而你喜欢空想，迷迷糊糊，什么都无所谓。你和她的联系又在哪里？你耽于性事，而她不是；但是你利用她，因为你有权这样做。当你利用她的时候，你和她之间怎么可能存在融合？如今我们的婚姻都基于这个想法、这种欲望；但婚姻中的矛盾和剧烈冲突越来越多，离婚率也越来越高。

So, this problem requires intelligent handling, which means that we have to alter the whole basis of our education, and that demands understanding not only the facts of life, but also our every day existence; not only knowing and understanding the biological urge, the sexual urge, but also seeing how to deal with it intelligently. But now, we don't do that, do we? It is a hushed subject, it is a secret thing, only talked about behind walls. When the urge is very strong, irrespective of anything else, we get mated for the rest of our life. See what one has done to oneself and to another.

所以，这个问题需要智慧的处理，这就意味着我们必须改变我们教育的整个基础，而这不仅仅需要了解生命的诸多事实，而且需要了解我们的日常生活；不仅仅要认识和了解生理冲动、性冲动，而且要明白如何智慧地应对。但是现在我们并没有这样做，不是吗？性是一个禁忌话题，是一件私底下的事，只能关起门来谈论。当这种冲动十分强烈时，我们就不顾一切地找个配偶度过余生。看看我们对自己、对别人都做了些什么。

How can the intellectual meet, commune, with the sentimental, the dull, or with the one who is not educated? And what communion is there then, except the sexual? The difficulty in all this is, is it not, that the fulfillment of the sexual urge, the biological urge, necessitates certain social regulations; therefore you have marriage laws. You have all the ways of possessing that which gives you pleasure, security, comfort; but that which gives constant pleasure, dulls the mind. As constant pain dulls the mind, so constant pleasure withers the mind and heart.

理智的人要如何才能与感情用事的人、迟钝刻板的人或者未受教育的人来沟通和交流？而且此时除了性方面的问题之外，将会有怎样的交流？这一切之中的困难就在于，性冲动、生理冲动的满足使得某些社会规范成为了必需，因此你们就有了婚姻法，不是吗？你们有了各式各样能够带给你快感、安全和舒适的占有之道；但是，持续带来快感的东西，必然会钝化心灵。就像持续的痛苦会钝化心灵一样，持续的快感也会让头脑和心灵枯萎。

And how can you have love? Surely, love is not a thing of the mind, is it? Love is not merely the sexual act, is it? Love is something which the mind can not possibly conceive. Love is something which cannot be formulated. And without love, you become related; without love, you marry. Then, in that marriage, you 'adjust yourselves' to each other. Lovely phrase! You adjust yourselves to each other, which is again an intellectual process, is it not?

而你又如何能拥有爱？毫无疑问，爱不是一件属于头脑的事情，对吗？爱不是单纯的性行为，对吗？爱是一件头脑不可能设想的事情，爱是一件无法被公式化的事情。而你没有爱就与别人步入了关系，没有爱你就结婚了。然后，在那场婚姻中，你们“调整自己”来适应对方。多么动听的说法！你们调整自己适应对方，这依然是一个智力过程，不是吗？

She has married you, but you are an ugly lump of flesh, carried away by your passions. She has got to live with you. She does not like the house, the surroundings, the hideousness of it, your brutality. But she says "Yes, I am married, I have got to put up with it." So, as a means of self-protection, she yields, she presently begins to say: "I love you." You know, when, through the desire for security, we put up with something ugly, that ugly thing seems to become beautiful, because it is a form of self-protection; otherwise we might be hurt, we might be utterly destroyed. So we see that which was ugly, hideous, has become gradually beautiful.

她嫁给了你，而你是一团污浊丑陋的肉身，被你的性欲所驱使。她不得不与你生活在一起，她不喜欢这间房子，不喜欢它的环境、它的丑恶，也不喜欢你的残暴。但是她说，“是的，我结婚了，我得忍受这一切。”你知道，当我们因为渴望安全而忍受某些丑陋的东西，那个丑陋的东西似乎就变得漂亮了，因为这是一种自我保护的形式；否则我们可能会受伤，我们可能会被彻底击垮。于是我们发现那些丑陋、恐怖的东西渐渐变得美好起来。

This adjustment is obviously a mental process. All adjustments are. But, surely, love is incapable of adjustment. You know, Sirs, don't you, that if you love another, there is no 'adjustment'. There is only complete fusion. Only when there is no love, do we begin to adjust. And this adjustment is called marriage. Hence, marriage fails, because it is the very source of conflict, a battle between two people. It is an extraordinarily complex problem, like all problems, but more so because the appetites, the urges, are so strong.

这种调整显然是一个思想上的过程，所有的调整都是如此。但是，毫无疑问，爱是无法调整的。你们知道，先生们，如果你爱着别人，就不存在“调整”，对吗？只有彻底的融合。只有当没有爱的时候，我们才开始调整。而这种调整就被叫做“婚姻”。所以婚姻才会失败，因为它正是冲突的源头，是两人之间的战斗。这是一个极其复杂的问题，就像所有的问题一样，而正因为欲望、冲动是如此强烈，问题就显得尤为复杂。

So, a mind which is merely adjusting itself, can never be chaste. A mind which is seeking happiness through sex can never be chaste. Though you may momentarily have, in that act, self-abnegation, self-forgetfulness, the very pursuit of that happiness, which is of the mind, makes the mind unchaste. Chastity comes into being only where there is love. Without love, there is no chastity.

所以，一颗仅仅在调整自己的心，绝不是贞洁的。一颗通过性来寻求快乐的心，永远无法贞洁。尽管你也许在那种行为中短暂地达到了自我摒弃和忘我，但对那种快乐的追求本身是属于头脑的，会让心灵变得不贞洁。只有爱存在的地方贞洁才会出现，没有爱，就没有贞洁。

And love is not a thing to be cultivated. There is love only when there is complete self-forgetfulness; and to have the blessing of that love, one must be free through understanding relationship. Then, when there is love, the sexual act has quite a different significance. Then that act is not an escape, is not habit. Love is not an ideal; love is a state of being. Love cannot be where there is becoming. Only where love is, is there chastity, purity; but a mind that is becoming, or attempting to become chaste, has no love.

而爱并不是一件可以培养的事情。只有彻底忘我时，爱才存在；而若要拥有那种爱的祝福，你就必须通过了解关系来获得自由。那么，当有爱时，性行为就有了截然不同的意义。此时那种行为就不再是一种逃避，也不再是习惯。爱并非理想，爱是一种存在状态。而只要想“成为什么”，爱就不可能存在。只有爱存在的地方，才会有贞洁、纯洁；而一颗在成为什么或者试图变得贞洁的心，是没有爱的。

J.Krishnamurti, Banaras 5th Public Talk, 20th February 1949

克里希那穆提1949年2月20日在贝拿勒斯的第五次公开讲话