 XSESSION 208 (全套第208课） NOVEMBER 15, 1965 9 PM MONDAY AS SCHEDULED （No envelope test was held during this session. （The session was held in our back room. Jane spoke while sittingdown, and at a rapid rate for the most part. She smoked throughoutthe session, and her eyes were open most of the time; indeed theyopened wide before she had spoken for more than a few minutes. Hervoice was average.） Good evening. （“Good evening, Seth.”） （这节课的过程中没有信封测试。） （课是在我们的后屋举行。珍讲话时是坐着的，而且大部分时间速度很快。她整节课都在抽烟，且她的眼睛大部分时间是睁着的；实际上在她开始讲话之前几分钟，眼睛就睁得大大的。她的音量是中等水平。） （“晚上好，赛斯。”） I am glad to see such a lively discussion immediately before asession, which shows you are on your toes. I am aware of several matters that you would like me to discuss,and we shall cover them. There are however several points that Iwould like to make. 我很高兴地看到在上 课前如此生动的讨论，那显示了你们很用心。
我意识到几个重点问题，那是你们想让我讨论的，我们将涉及到它们。然而有几个要点我想去处理。
My remark in our last session, concerning the aid that Ruburtsubconsciously gave me in connection with the voice effect, did nothave to do with the inner voice heard by Philip. I believe this wasperhaps an error in your paragraphing.
（See page 65. Philip is John Bradley’s entity name.）
我在上节课的言论，涉及到辅助设备（译者：可能指录音机），鲁伯潜意识地给了我有关声音效果的联系点，与听到自菲利普内在声音无关。我相信这里可能有个错误。在你们的段落笔记里。
（参看地65节。菲利普是John Bradley存有的名字。）
Ruburt helped me in producing that voice that he himself heard,simply because of certain electromagnetic alterations that occurwithin the trance state; and Ruburt was in a trance state upon thespecific occasion of which I was speaking.
（See the 190th session in Volume 4 for notes on this. Thispsychological-time experience of Jane's also involved JohnBradley.）
鲁伯帮助我制作了那个声音，那个他自己听到的声音，仅仅因为某种电磁场的改变，事情发生在恍惚的状态里；而且是当我正在讲话的特殊时机，鲁伯处于发呆的状态。
（参看地190课第四册的笔记有这个内容。鲁伯这样的心理时间经验，也涉及到了John Bradley。）
It was easier for me to make certain realignments and adjustmentsof a necessary nature. The other point that I wanted to make wasthat while your physical time, or clock time, has no overall basicreality, and is not a primary reality, that runs through variousfields or systems, it is nevertheless an electromagnetic realitywithin your own system, for you have created it on mentalterms.
（Jane, her eyes wide open, was now speaking quite rapidly and withmuch emphasis. She seemed very involved with the material, sweptalong with it in an enthusiastic, cooperative way.）
做出某种必要性的整合和调整对我来说是容易的。另外一点是我想做的，但在你们的物质时间，或钟表时间，没有整体的基本现实，且不是一个主要的现实，那是贯穿各种场或系统的，但它仍然是一种电磁的现实，在你们自己的系统里，因为你们在精神方面创造了它。
（珍，她的眼睛睁得很大，现在讲话很快，且带有很多的强调。似乎看上去她非常的投入这个资料，用一种热烈的情绪席卷了它们，那样的合作方式。）
It is therefore some force to be reckoned with. If it were aprimary reality, you would not escape from it even in the sleepingstate. Those realities which are primary and basic you can neverescape from. This should give you an idea, for those realitieswhich run through all systems, and which are primaries, are thosewhich exist for you in all conditions of consciousness and underany circumstances.
因此它是某种需要认真对待的力。如果它是一个原生的现实，你们无从逃脱，甚至在睡眠时也一样。那种现实是主要的和基本的，你无法摆脱。这将给你们一种理念，那些现实贯穿所有的系统，且是基本的原始的，是为你们而存在的，在所有的意识状态和任何的环境里。
Those realities however which appear only in certain stages ofconsciousness, are secondaries. This is perhaps one of the mostimportant bits of information I have given you; for if you arebright enough, and I think that you are, then you have a yardstickby which to measure the nature of primary reality, from which allother manifestations are spun.
然而那些显现的现实，仅仅是某种阶段的意识，是次要的。这可能是我所给予你们的一个最重要的信息点；如果你足够聪明的话，但我认为你是足够聪明的，如此一来你就好像得到了一把尺子，可以去衡量原生现实的性质，从那里变化出其它所有的显象。
I have been leading up to this point in my own way, for the dreamexperiments that we plan will enable you to accumulate in time alist of primaries. I want you however to come across this knowledgeon your own, through these experiments, for you will learn morethat way.
我一直用我自己的方式往这个要点上引导，为了梦的实验，我们计划将能够让你们最终积累出一个原生力的脉络。然而我想让你们自然遇到这种知识，通过这样的尝试，你们将学到更多那方面的知识。
If ever in a dream experience you defy gravity, then gravity is nota primary reality, but only a manifestation within your ownphysical system. If clock time is escaped within the dream state,then clock time is not a primary. What you cannot escape within anyrange of consciousness, can be called a Primary Condition, and youmay capitalize the term.
曾经在梦中你们感受不到重力，说明重力不是一种原生现实，而仅仅是一个在你们物质系统中的显现。如果钟表时间在梦状态里能被摆脱，那么钟表时间不是原生的。你们不能从任何意识范围里逃脱，（那“任何意识范围”）可以称做原生状态，且你把这个术语大写。
Incidentally, if it is not now known by your scientists, it will beshortly discovered that the physical organism does not age in sleepat the same rate at which it ages in the waking state. Aging,therefore, is not a primary. Again, this does not mean thatsecondary conditions such as aging and gravity and clock time, donot have effects within your system, obviously. It is onlythat
these must be recognized as secondary conditions that do nottherefore basically （underlined） affect the inner self, which is toa large degree independent of your system.
顺便说几句，如果现在你们的科学家还不知道，它将很快被发现，自然界生物在睡眠中不会以同样的速率老化，与清醒时老化的状况比。因此，老化，不是一种原生力。再一次的，这不意味着次要状态像老化和重力还有钟表时间，没有在你们的系统里造成影响，明显的，它仅仅应该被确认为次要的状态，因此对内在自我基本上没有影响（这句下划线），它很大程度上独立于你们的系统。
A recognition of the differences between primary and secondaryconditions can however allow you to minimize the effect of thesecondary conditions to some considerable degree.
Here now once more, let me repeat that thoughts are definiteelectromagnetic realities. Therefore, being actions, they affectall other actions, and if I repeat this in session after session, Ido so, so that it will never be forgotten. Therefore thesesecondary conditions are strengthened through the very act, ormisact. of thinking that they are primary rather than secondaryelements in action.
然而辨别原生状态和次要状态之间的区别，让你们尽量少地受到次要状态的影响，以相当大的程度。
现在再一次的，让我重复，思想确实是电磁实相。因此，作为行动，它们影响所有其它的行动，且如果需要我每节课都重复这个讲法的话，我会这么做，因此这个将不会被忘记。所以这次要的状态是通过丰富的行动或错误的行动加强了的，与其认为它们是原生状态不如认为它们是行动里的次要元素。
Two men for example, of precisely the same physical age, ofprecisely the same physical condition, will be in completelydifferent states of mind, of competence, of effectiveness and ofstrength, as a direct result of their inner beliefs as to theirrelative freedom within the framework of the physical system inwhich they exist.
例如两个男人，在完全相同的生理年龄、相同的物质环境下，将会处于完全不同的心理状态、能力、有效性及力度中，他们受一种直接内在信念的影响，就像他们存在于物理系统内的相对自由框架内。
The man who does not realize his basic independence from thephysical system will not have the same freedom within it.
（Here Jane's voice deepened and became louder momentarily. Herdelivery was fast and emphatic, as indicated partially by theunderlined words. Her eyes were wide open and very dark.）
对于没有了解到他的基础不依赖物质系统的人来说，将不会有同等的内在自由。
（这时珍的声音深沉且忽然变得很响亮，她的转译快速且有力，用有下划线部分的单词标注。她的眼睛睁得很大且颜色很黑）
He will be at all times a prisoner of clock time and of aging, forhe will consider these the primary conditions under which he mustoperate. And the action, or actions involved in this belief willtherefore act upon the physical cells of his body with vengefulforce, because he has himself directed them to do so.
他将永远是钟表时间和老化概念的囚徒，因此他应该思考原生状态，在此基础上必须去运行。还有行动，或活动涉及这个信念，将因而作用在他身体的物质细胞群上，以复仇的力量（或理解为“报复的力量”、“忿忿不平的力量”……），因为是他自己导演细胞这样做的。
You will find it a most rewarding experience, once theseexperiments have been begun, for you will yourselves discover thedifference between primary and secondary conditions. Obviously thesecondary conditions are to some extent necessary for your survivalas a physical organism, but you are more than a physical organismnow, and you shall be other than a physical organism in yourfuture.
你将发现那是一个有价值的经历，一旦这些实验展开，你们自己将发现原生状态与次要状态的不同。很明显的次要状态在某种程度上是你们以物质有机体存在的必要条件，但是你们现在比一个物质有机体丰富得多，与一个物质有机体相比你们将来应该是别的。
And the conditions that are necessary, the primary conditions thatare necessary for your existence as other than a physical organism,already exist, therefore, and can be perceived and studied with theequipment which is a part of every individual.
Are your hands tired?
（'No.”
（Actually my writing hand was tiring, but I thought Jane was in anexceptionally good mood, and that she might want to continue. Sethmust have caught on though.）
We will shortly take a brief break.
所说的状态是必要的，除了是一个物质有机体主要状态对你们的存在来说是必要的，它已经存在，因此，应该意识到和研究这个知识，那是每个个体的一部分。你的手累不累？
（“不累。”）
（实际上我那速记中的手很累，但是我认为珍正处于很意外的好情绪中，她可能想继续下去，赛斯当然就更像抓紧时间了。）
我们将短暂地休息一会。
I have had several matters to discuss with you; our sessions ingeneral, the matter of spontaneity and discipline, your own fears,rather natural enough, concerning any subconscious effect I mighthave on Ruburt.
Both of you have been concerned with these questions, and theyshould be discussed. I would not like the matter of the sessions ingeneral, and the subconscious influence question, to go by theboard, and in one way or another we must find time for thosematters.
我有几个问题想和你们讨论；一般来说我们的课程，对于自发性和训练性的问题，你们自己的忧虑，很自然的，涉及到任何的潜意识影响我可以帮鲁伯。
你们两个都关心这个问题，且它们应该被讨论。我不喜欢通常课程中的这些问题，由于潜意识影响那些问题，造成搁置，可以用一种方式和其它方式，我们必须找到时间讨论这些问题。
I could have spoken at any time on the question of spontaneity anddiscipline. It may appear that Ruburt is too easy or too willing tohold sessions. However his ego is very well in control, so well incontrol that on occasion when I would have spoken on these verymatters, I have not been allowed to do so. Of course I realize thetime limitations, and others.
我可以在任何时间讲关于自发性与训练性的问题。看起来鲁伯是如此容易或如此喜欢上课。而他的自我却有着很好的控制，因此在控制的情况下当我想对这些非常重要的事情发言时，我不被允许去做。当然我也意识到时间的限制，还有一些其它问题。
One small point: I have never manipulated his subconscious, in anymanner. And both of you called me the evening of our lastunscheduled session. We will devote some time to this wholematter.
take your break.
还有一点：我从没操纵过他的潜意识，以任何方式。像上某个傍晚的临时课你们俩都喊我了。我们将专门找时间来处理这个问题。
休息一会。
（Break at 9:31. Jane said she was very well dissociated for a firstdelivery. She felt that Seth came through as a personality to agood degree. She said she could tell this by feeling her featuresin unaccustomed positions as Seth delivered the material. Janeseyes were open for most of the session, her delivery very emphaticand fast, her voice about average. （The unscheduled session Sethreferred to above is the one held on Friday, November 5, for ourfour young friends. See the notes about it on page 57. ConsciouslyI had not wanted to have the session, since I thought our guestshadn't had enough time to study related material.
（休息时间是9点31分。珍说她开始的转移阶段处于很棒的分解状态。她感觉到赛斯以人格形式穿越到一个很好的层次。她说她能解释这种感觉，当赛斯传递资料时她的特性在一种不习惯的位置上。珍的眼睛在课程中大部分是张开的，她的转译有很多强调点和很快速，她的音量是平均水平。（赛斯提到的相关临时课程在周五举行，11月5日，为我们的四个年轻朋友。参看第57页笔记。说实在的，我不想上这节课，因为我认为我们的客人不会有足够的时间去研究有关的资料。）
（Jane resumed in a little slower manner. Her eyes were open part ofthe time, her voice quieter. Resume at 9:41.）
Now. If an experience is a part of the waking state, but not a partof the sleeping state, if it is part of the sleeping state but nota part of the waking state, then it is not a primaryexperience.
（珍恢复上课以一种稍慢的方式。她的眼睛部分时间是打开的，他的声音很安静。重新上课在9点41分）
现在，假设经验是清醒状态的一部分，而不是睡眠状态的一部分，如果它是睡眠状态的一部分但不是清醒状态的一部分，那么它就不是原始的经验。
This, again, is not to say that it is not real, but that it is nota primary reality that is more or less constant for the inner self.If an experience is a part of all levels of consciousness—thisincludes the trance state—then it is a primary experience.
再一次的，不是说那是不真实的，但那不是一个基本的实相，那或多或少是恒定的内在自我。如果一个经验是所有层面意识的一部分——这包括恍惚状态，那么它是一种原始的经验。
Identity of the inner self operates very well within primaryconditions. It is dependent upon primary conditions. Itsmanipulation of primary conditions gives it the knowledge ofitself. Identity is retained within the dream state, is itnot?
（“Yes.”）
在原生状态下内在自我的特性运转得很好。它依赖于原生状态。那种原生状态的操作给予它自身的知识。特性是在梦的状态里被保持的，不是吗？
（“是的。”）
Yet within the dream state the familiar physical props sometimesdisappear. The inner I operates very well without them. In order tomanipulate a physical reality however, the inner I needs a selfthat is acclimated to physical conditions; hence the ego.
然而在梦的状态里，熟悉的身体道具有时会消失。没有它们内在的我操作得很好。不过为了控制一个物质的现实，内在我需要一个自我，那是适应物质环境；因此有了自我。
As you know therefore we have differentiated between an outer ego,who manipulates within physical reality, and an inner ego whodirects the activities of the inner self. Now then, the next stepshould indeed be clear. In the main, the ego deals with secondaryrealities, and in the main, the inner ego deals withprimaries.
因此你知道，我们得区分外我，那是操控于物质范围内的，还有内在自我，那是引导内我行动的。现在，下一步确实很明确。最主要的，自我处理次要实相，另一个主要点是，内我处理原生状态。
Nevertheless primaries also exist within the physical universe, andsecondaries appear often as props within the dream world.
Again, none of these issues are clear-cut, and the distinctions,many of them, are for simplicity’s sake. Many primaries will showsecondary characteristics. For example, within your clock timethere are definite primary characteristics of time as it exists ina primary condition.
尽管如此原生状态也存在于物质世界范围内，且次要状态常常在梦世界里以道具的形式出现。再一次的，这些问题没有一个是明确的，有区别的，它们中很多情况的说法，都是为了简单起见。很多原生状态将以次要状态呈现。举例来说，在你们的钟表时间里，存在着一定的原生特征的时间，当它存在于一种原生状态时。
Once more, even the word time is misleading, but within theboundaries of your clock reality every individual feels attimes—but you see that the use of the word itself binds us—butevery individual feels now and then the primary sense of existencethat is not arbitrarily divided into moments and hours;
再一次的，甚至时间这个词也是有误导的，在有时你们的钟表实相的每一个独特感受范围内——你看到这个词的运用本身在约束我们——间或的每一个独特的感受原始感觉的存在，那是不能被任意地分割进时刻和时间的。
and he therefore escapes from a secondary condition into therealization of a primary reality behind it. A consistent, carefullyrecorded and extended examination of the dream state will, oncemore, permit you to compare those conditions and realities whichshow themselves in both the waking and dream states.
因而他从次要状态脱离进入原生实相的实现里并支持它。将对梦的状态有一个连贯的，仔细的记录还有延伸的核对，再一次的，允许你去比较那些状况和现实，同时在清醒状况和梦状况里展现它们自己。
I believe that it is close to our appointment time. I will allowyou a brief break.
（Break at 9:59. Jane was dissociated as usual. Her eyes hadremained open much of the time, although her delivery had beenslower. She had still been quite emphatic in speaking. She said shehad not been conscious of anything else while speaking; that is,Jane heard no other noises, etc.
我相信接近我们约定的时间了。我将给你们一个短暂的休息。
（休息时间是在9点59分。珍像通常一样是分解的。她的眼睛在大部分时间里是睁着的，尽管她的转译比较慢。她在讲话是仍然是很有力度的。她说她讲话时没意识到任何其它事情；确实，珍没听到其它的噪音等等。）
（This is the 17th Dr. Instream test data.
（During break I turned on an electric heater that has a fan forcirculating the air. It makes a gentle sound we are used to, and Iinadvertently left it on when Jane began speaking again. As usualshe now sat with her eyes closed and her hands to her face. Hervoice was quiet, her pace slow. Resume at 10:06.）
Now give us a moment.
（这是第17次Instream博士的测试资料）
（休息期间我打开了电热器，它有个风扇可以循环空气。这将制造出一种我们熟悉的温和声音，且我无意中是在珍开始讲话时打开的。像平时一样，她现在闭上眼睛，她的手摸着脸。她的声音是温和的，她的语速是慢的，回复上课是在10点06分。）
现在给我们一点时间。
Simply, Joseph, for our test turn off your machine, please.
（I did so.）
Thank you. （Pause.）
I pick up a strong connection with Dr. Instream and two other menthis evening, with whom he has been particularly involved.
One is some years younger, and one approximately, in any case, ofhis own generation. One has dark hair, one has blondish or whitehair. This second man wears glasses. （Pause.）
I will change this—forgive me. The dark-haired man wearsglasses.
不过，约瑟，为了我们的测试关掉你的电热器好吧。
（好的。）
谢谢你。（停顿）
我今晚与Instream博士还有另外两个男人遇到一个很强的联系，他一直有着很特别的卷入。一个年轻几岁，一个大约，无论如何，与他是同时代的人。一个是黑头发，一个是金色的头发或白发。这第二个男人带个眼镜。（停顿）我这里将改动一下——原谅我。那黑发男人戴眼镜。
They have been together today, or are together now, the three ofthem in an office, I believe; though I am not certain, Dr.Instreams office.
他们今天一直在一起，或者现在是在一起的，这三个人在一间办公室里，我相信，尽管我不那么确定是否是Instreams博士的办公室。
It seems that although this is somehow connected with theuniversity, that their particular conversation has to do with amatter that will be carried on without official universityknowledge. （Pause. Janes pace was faster now.）
尽管似乎这与大学有某种关系，但他们的详细谈话却与一件与官方大学学科无关的事有关。（停顿。珍的速度现在加快了）
I believe a woman is involved, though she is not at this meeting,but seems to have something to do with the matter underconsideration. One man has recently been on a long trip. Thelight-haired man.
我相信一个妇女牵涉进来，尽管她没有在这次会面中出现，但是似乎有某件与她有关的事在考虑中。一个人最近在长途旅行。浅色头发的人。
There is a secondary mention of money, though I do not believe itis directly connected with the main matter. （Pause.） I also believethat Dr. Instream had a drink of a liquor which he is notaccustomed to drinking as a rule. （Pause.） That he would notordinarily choose, for example.
这是第二次提到钱，尽管我不相信那直接与主要的事情有关。（停顿）我也相信博士喝了一点烈酒，那是他平时不习惯喝的。（停顿）他通常不会选择，就那酒来说。
I see the woman in a connection with yellow or gold.
She is in the background of this matter. I believe there are plansfor a future meeting when snow will be on the ground. One of themen has a daughter who is sickly, ailing at present. Perhaps withan illness connected with the lungs. （Pause at 10:16.）
我看到这个妇女与黄色或金色有关联。她处于这件事的背景上。我相信有个将来会面的计划，当雪降落在地面上时。其中一个人有个女儿，她生病了，现在很不舒服。可能与肺部疾病有关。（停顿在10点16分）
An indication here of the possibility of an automobile accident forone of the men within a six-month period. （Pause.） On a corner by alarge brick building, red building. The accident possibility notapplying to Dr. Instream.
这里一个迹象表明可能有个汽车事故，在六个月的时间段以内发生在一个人身上。（停顿）在一个大砖房的转角处，红色的建筑。这个事故可能不是Instream博士遇上。
It is not a fatal accident, for the man involved, in any case. Andagain, this is only a possibility, and many circumstances couldchange this. （Pause.）
The light-haired man is the one with which I feel the accidentconnection, and if it occurs it will be a direct result of hisreaction to a letter.
不管怎样，那不是一个致命的事故，对涉及这件事的人来说。再一次的，这只是一种可能性，且很多的环境因素将改变这个预测。（停顿）
浅色头发的人是那个牵扯进我预测那事故的人，且如果它发生了 ，那将是对一封信直接反应的结果。
Dr. Instream has been to a store this evening. （Pause.） There aresome papers due. He is late with them, on a business matter.
I seem also to think of a lease, but do not know to what thisrefers.
Instream博士今晚一直在一个商店里。（停顿）有一些文件到期。他在一个业务问题会面时迟到了。我似乎也想到了租赁，但不清楚这里指的是什么。
Now, you may take a short break and we will continue, or end thesession as you prefer.
（‘‘We’ll end it then.”）
Then I wish you all my heartiest regards and good wishes.
（“Good night, Seth.”
（End at 10:21. Jane was dissociated as usual. Her eyes had remainedclosed during the delivery, her voice had been average, her pacealso about average toward the end of the material.）
现在，你们可能想休息一下，我们将继续，或者结束这节课随你们。
（我们将结束它吧。）
那我衷心地祝愿你们万事如意！
（“晚安，赛斯。”）
（结束在10点21分。珍像往常一样是分解的。她的眼睛在转译过程中一直闭着，她的音量是平均的，她的语速直到转译资料的结尾也是平均水平的）
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