 Conversation with Mstislav Rostropovich 罗斯特罗波维奇访谈 By Tim Janof TJ: When you burst onto the music scene, people were struck by your white hot performances. Your sound was strong and your vibrato was wide, which was a striking contrast to your predecessors. Where did your unique concept of sound come from? 问：当您以白热化的表演骤然出现在音乐舞台上时，所有人都被震惊到。如此强烈的琴音、大幅度的颤音，与前人的表演有很大的反差。这种特殊的声音概念源自何处？ MR: Let me give you a little background first. My family lived in tworoom apartment in Baku until I was seven years old. My mother was a pianist and my father was a cellist who had worked with Casals. There is a picture of me sleeping inside my father's cello case when I was four months old. 罗斯特罗波维奇：我先稍稍谈一下我的生平。在我七岁以前，我和家人住在巴库一套二室的公寓里。我母亲是钢琴家，父亲是大提琴家，曾与卡萨尔斯合作过。有一张照片里，你会看到四个月的我正睡在父亲的大提琴盒里。 My first instrument was the piano, which was my first love. To this day, when I am learning a new cello work, I always start at the piano instead of the cello. One of my father's favorite games was to have me play a melody on the piano starting on a key that he chose at random. I became so proficient at this that at four or five years old he had me do it for friends. My parents never thought that I might have a special talent for the cello. 我的第一份乐器是钢琴，这是我最初的爱好。一直到今天，每次要学习一部新的大提琴作品，我都会先用钢琴试弹。我父亲最喜欢的游戏是随意选一个调，让我在钢琴上弹出一个旋律。我越玩越得心应手，四五岁的时候，他让我带朋友也玩这个游戏。我父母从未想过我在大提琴上有特殊的天赋。  After my family moved to Moscow, my father played in orchestras that performed in small towns, such as Zaporozh'e. He did this to make some extra money in the summer months. I remember going with my godmother to open air concerts of my father's when I was seven or eight years old. I'd cry when I listened to Tchaikovsky or some other sentimental music, and my godmother would give me a piece of chocolate to soothe me. I soon learned the trick to getting chocolate. 我家搬到莫斯科后，父亲在一个管弦乐团里工作，他们常常去Zaporozh这样的小镇演出，夏天他靠这样的演出来赚些外快。我记得在我七八岁的时候曾跟着教母去了父亲的几场露天音乐会，每次听到柴可夫斯基或其他伤感的音乐，我就会大哭起来。教母会给我一块巧克力来安慰我。我很快学会了用这个伎俩来吃到巧克力。 It was around this time that my father said he wanted to teach me how to play the cello. I told him that I didn't want to be a cellist because I wanted to become a conductor instead. He replied, 'First you must try the cello. If you are successful with the cello, you can do what you want after that.' 就是在这段时间，父亲说他想教我拉大提琴。我说我不想成为大提琴家，因为我的梦想是成为指挥家。他回答说：“你得先试试大提琴。如果你能把这个做好，之后你想做什么我都不拦着你。”  My mind, even at that age, was geared towards Romantic symphonic music, not cello music. My interest has always been in the large scale repertoire and that's the sound I've always had in my head, not the cello sound. My 'big sound' concept on the cello therefore came from my desire for a more orchestral scale projection. I don't hear a cello sound when I play, I hear an orchestra. I never tried to copy another cellist's sound. 我那时候尽管年纪还小，但心里已经钟情于浪漫的交响音乐，而不是大提琴乐。我的兴趣一直在大规模的曲目上，脑海里记着的是那种声音，而不是大提琴的乐声。我拉大提琴时的“大声音”概念就源于对这种大规模管弦乐的渴望。演奏的时候我听到的不是大提琴的声音而是一支管弦乐队。我从未想过去效仿其他大提琴家。 My concept of sound also comes from my experience of playing works with many composers, including Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Britten, Penderecki, and Lutoslawski, to name a few. I also studied orchestration for three years with Shostakovich and I wrote two piano concerti. I am therefore very sensitive to the different orchestrations and timbres of different composers and I learned to vary my sound depending on whose music I was playing. I don't think of myself as having a single sound. 我的声音概念也来源于与众多作曲家的合作经历，例如肖斯塔科维奇、普罗科菲耶夫、布里顿、潘德列茨基和卢托斯拉夫斯基等等。我还跟随肖斯塔科维奇学过3年的管弦乐配器，写了两首钢琴协奏曲。所以我对不同管弦乐配器和不同作曲家的音色非常敏感，学会了根据不同作曲家的作品来调整声音。我并不觉得我的声音与众不同的。 I think some cellists have sounds that are best in certain types of music. My friend Janos Starker's sound is absolutely fantastic for solo pieces like the Kodály Sonata or other more intimate works, but I prefer a different sound when I hear a piece like the Prokofiev Sinfonia Concertante. I believe the Prokofiev needs to have a very strong and full sound. 有些大提琴家的声音在演奏特定类型的音乐时状态最佳。我朋友亚诺什·斯塔克的声音能美妙地演奏独奏曲（如柯达伊的奏鸣曲）或其他更有私密感的作品，但如果是普罗科菲耶夫的《交响协奏曲》这样的曲目，我会更倾向于另一种声音。我相信普罗科菲耶夫需要更强劲饱满的琴音。  Were you familiar with the recordings of cellists like Feuermann? 问：您熟悉费尔曼等大提琴家的唱片吗？ Of course, I was familiar with the playing of many cellists. Feuermann was a phenomenal cellist, but his sound in pieces like the Dvorak Concerto didn't have enough meat for me. Please understand that I greatly respect my colleagues, whether I'm talking about Starker, Feuermann, or others. It's just that I have a different concept of how certain types of music should be played. 罗斯特罗波维奇：当然，我对很多大提琴家的演奏都非常熟悉。费尔曼是一位现象级的大提琴家，但在演奏德沃夏克《b小调大提琴协奏曲》（ Concerto for Cello and Orchestra in B minor, Op. 104）这类曲目时，他的声音对我来说是不够的。请理解，我非常尊敬我的同行，无论是斯塔克、费尔曼还是其他人。只是我对于某类音乐该如何演奏有不同的看法。 Your playing changed significantly over decades. Your playing earlier in your career had a certain simplicity and sense of restraint. It became more rhythmically free and emotionally charged later on. Was there something that happened in your life that caused this change? 几十年间您的演奏也经历了很大的变化。您早期的演奏有一种简单和克制感。后来在节奏上变得更加自由，情绪感也越来越强。是因为您生活中的不同际遇导致了这种变化吗？ I simply evolved over the years. My playing changed as I learned more and as I gained more experience with great musicians around the world. I also started conducting in the 1950's, so my perspective on music-making greatly widened. I became more comfortable with the music making process as a whole and I felt freer to express myself on a more personal level. 只是在跟随时间慢慢蜕变。与世界各地的优秀音乐家有了更多合作，学到的越来越多，演奏就自然地变化了。20世纪50年代我开始了指挥生涯，由此拓宽了我看待音乐演奏的视角，对音乐的整体塑造过程变得更加有把握，所以自我表达时感觉更加自在了。 I also learned a lot about conducting from people such as Herbert von Karajan. I remember lamenting to him about my difficulties in getting a choir and orchestra to be in synch with each other. No matter what I did, they simply weren't together. He told me to just lower my hands so that the orchestra couldn't see my beat. This forced the orchestra to listen to the choir as they played instead of depending on visual cues. Suddenly the ensemble was perfect! 我也从卡拉扬等指挥家那里学到了很多指挥的知识。我记得有一次跟他感叹说自己很难让合唱团和管弦乐队同步起来，无论我怎样做，他们就是不能很好地相互配合。他告诉我，只需要把手放低，让管弦乐队看不到我的节拍，这样迫使他们不得不听着合唱团的节拍来演奏，而不是按照指挥的手势来。就这样，合奏突然间完美同步了！  The Elgar, Walton and Barber concerti were not in your standard repertoire. Why? 问：埃尔加、沃尔顿和巴伯的协奏曲不在您的常演曲目里，为什么呢？ I stayed away from the Elgar because I think of that piece as somewhat na?ve. The theme from the slow movement sounds like it's about first love, so I think it's more appropriate for a young person. My pupil Jacqueline du Pré played it much better than I because I didn't have the fresh perspective that a piece like that requires. After playing Don Quixote, the Shostakovich concertos, and other works, it was hard for me to go back to a piece like the Elgar. 罗斯特罗波维奇：我之所以避开埃尔加的协奏曲，是因为我觉得那些曲目稍显幼稚。缓慢的乐章听起来像在讲初恋的故事，我觉得那更适合年轻人。我的学生杰奎琳·杜普蕾比我弹奏得好多了，因为我没有这类作品所需要的清新的视角。在演奏过《堂吉诃德》、肖斯塔科维奇的协奏曲和其他诸多作品之后，很难再回过头来演奏埃尔加的曲目。 Why didn't you record the third Britten Suite? 问：您为什么从未录制过布里顿《第三大提琴曲》（Cello Suite No. 3, Op. 87）呢？ That was a mistake. I have three musical gods -- Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Britten -- and I feel like I didn't pay sufficient homage to the last one by recording that piece. I was devastated when Britten died so I stayed away from the third suite for awhile, but then I got too busy with other things and I simply never got around to recording it. This is one of my regrets in life. 罗斯特罗波维奇：这是个错误。我有三位音乐大神——肖斯塔科维奇、普罗科菲耶夫和布里顿——录制这部套曲也不足以表达对布里顿的敬仰。布里顿去世时我大受打击，所以有一阵子一直避开第三部套曲，后来我又忙于其他事情，所以就一直没能录制成。这是我人生的一大遗憾。 I remember when Britten asked me to show his War Requiem to Shostakovich. He had composed it in just a couple of weeks. Shostakovich called me two days after I dropped the score off and said that he wanted to hear the work performed, saying, 'I'm one hundred percent sure that Britten is one of the greatest geniuses of the twentieth century.' 我记得布里顿曾让我把他在仅仅几周内完成的《战争安魂曲》拿给肖斯塔科维奇看。我把总谱捎过去两天后，肖斯塔科维奇联系到我，说想听这部作品演奏出来的效果，“我百分之百确信，布里顿是20世纪最伟大的天才之一”。
Why didn't you record the Walton Concerto? That seems like a great piece for you. 问：您为什么没有录制沃尔顿的协奏曲（Cello Concerto，1957）呢？那部作品似乎对您来说是一部大作。 I didn't have time to play everything. I gave 320 world premieres throughout my career, so I was always extremely busy. I was also busy playing the standard repertoire and conducting orchestras around the world. I could only do so much. 罗斯特罗波维奇：我没有时间演奏每一部作品。我这辈子做过320场全球首演，总是忙得不可开交。同时我还忙于演奏常规曲目，在世界各地指挥管弦乐团。我只能做到这些。 Walton was a great composer and I asked him to write a cello piece for me, but he never got around to it. He did write an orchestra work, Prologo e fantasis, which was his last composition. I asked Barber and Messiaen to write something for me too, but they never got around to it either. Messiaen wrote Concert à Quatre, which is a concerto for flute, oboe, cello, and piano, and he had me in mind when he wrote the cello part. I premiered it after Messiaen died. 沃尔顿是一位伟大的作曲家，我曾请他为我写一部大提琴作品，但他从来没有兑现。他倒是写出了一部管弦乐作品，《前奏与幻想曲》（Prologo e fantasis），这是他生前最后一次创作。我也邀请过巴伯和梅西安为我写些东西，但他们都没有兑现。梅西安写了《时间终止四重奏》（Concert à Quatre），里面有长笛、双簧管、大提琴和钢琴，大提琴部分是为我而写的。他去世后我参与了这部作品的首演。
Given your phenomenal technique, you must have practiced endlessly when you were young. 您非凡的技巧一定是年轻时不断练习而来吧？ I generally practiced at most two hours per day. My record was over a four day period after Shostakovich gave me the score to his first cello concerto. I knew that he was working on it, but I first learned that he had completed it from the local newspaper. I remember wondering anxiously if I would get to see it, since at the time I had no idea if I would be the one to give its premiere. 罗斯特罗波维奇：我平均每天最多练习2个小时。最高纪录是在肖斯塔科维奇把他的第一部大提琴协奏曲（Cello Concerto No. 1 in E-flat major, Op. 107）总谱交给我之后的那四天里。我之前就知道他在写这部协奏曲，但头一次听说作品已经完成是通过当地的报纸。我记得我当时非常焦虑，不知道自己能不能看到乐谱，因为我还不知道是不是由我担任这部作品的首演。 I rushed over immediately when he called and he said that if I liked it he would dedicate it to me. I was in heaven! I went straight home and practiced ten hours that day, ten hours the next day, eight hours the day after that, and then six hours on the fourth day. I only practiced that hard because I was so excited about the piece, and that was the most I practiced in all of my 79 years. I played it for Shostakovich from memory after the fourth day, which was one of the proudest moments in my life. 他打电话过来，说如果我愿意他会将这部作品献给我。我一接到电话就迅速赶了过去，简直像置身天堂！拿到总谱后我飞奔回家，当天练习了10个小时，第二天又是10个小时，第三天8小时，第四天6小时。这部协奏曲让我非常兴奋，所以我练习得尤其认真，这是我79年来练习得最多的一次。四天过后，我就可以凭记忆去演奏了，那是我一生中最自豪的时刻。 I was very lucky because I didn't need to practice when I was young. While some performers had to practice every day in order to stay in top form, I didn't. It was as if my fingers had a memory of their own. They never forgot what they were supposed to do. 幸运的是，我年轻的时候并不需要太多练习。有些演奏家为了登上顶尖的舞台必须每天练习，而我并没有。我的手指似乎拥有记忆能力，从来不会忘记自己的本分。
If you weren't a big practicer then what was that story about you hanging food from the ceiling as you practiced. 如果您不是一个勤学苦练的人，那么有一则关于您在学琴时把食物吊在天花板上的故事是怎么来的呢？ That was when I lived in Orenburg, which is in the Urals. I was thirteen years old when my father passed away. He had been the cello professor at the local music academy and I was the best cellist in town after he died, so I was asked to take his place. My family needed the money, so I dropped out of school in eighth grade and took the job. In order to earn some additional cash, I also played some pieces at the local theater as part of an operatic production and I made kerosene lamps to sell at the market. Basically, I was so busy that I didn't have time to practice more than an hour or two per day. 罗斯特罗波维奇：那是我住在乌拉尔河畔的奥伦堡时的事了。我父亲去世时我13岁。他曾经是当地音乐学院的大提琴教授，他去世后我成为了小镇上最优秀的大提琴家，所以有人请我去接替他的职务。我家需要这笔钱，所以我在八年级时辍学，接了这份工作。为了赚更多外快，我还在当地剧院的一次歌剧演出中演奏过一些曲目，而且会自己制作煤油灯拿到市场上卖。我太忙了，基本上没有时间每天练习一两个小时以上。 My godmother often baked large flatbread for me, which I tied to a ceiling lamp such that it hung near my head as I practiced. The hard part was catching it so that I could take a bite. The bottom line is that I was so busy that I didn't have time to eat, so I ate while I squeezed in some precious practice time. 我的教母经常烤很大的薄干脆饼给我吃，我把它绑在一盏天灯上，练习的时候它就正好悬在我头顶上。要够到干脆饼咬上一口实在有难度。最不济的时候，我忙得没有时间吃饭，就趁挤出的那点时间边练习边吃。 |
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