贺琳老师对于同学们问题的回应：问题：我没太明白老师强调cluster的用义，和group的区别是什么？关于这个词的含义可以多讲一些吗？答：（
group）“团体、群体”，对我来说，是一个被过度使用的词。人们"聚集"（cluster）在一起，讨论大家感兴趣的话题或问题
。Group,forme,issuchanoverusedword.?People“cluster”–com
etogethertotalkaboutatopicorquestionofinterestforall.
2.问题一：Notknowing是完全没有预设吗？如果完全没有预设，咨询师为什么会在某种情况下提某个问题，而不是另外一个问题？
问题二：最近两次课都在讲身体和心理的关系。从合作对话的角度看，是怎么看待这个问题的？这两者是如何连接的？答：（1）“不知道”（no
t-knowing）是一个概念-----重要的是要意识到你的先入为主的想法，以及它们如何影响你的倾听和理解，并影响你的反应。换句话
说，你的先入之见很容易干扰你的来访者专注于他们想告诉你的事情、他们想怎么说。仔细小心思考你所问的问题，以及你问这些问题的目的。（2
）它们（身体与心灵）不可能没有联系。心灵不是一个东西。它是一个概念，是人类创造的关于某些人在我们头脑中的想法。（1）Not-kno
wingisaconcept–itisimportanttobeawareofyourpre-conce
ptionsandhowtheyinfluencehowyoulistenandunderstand,and
influenceyourresponse.Inotherwords,itiseasyforyourpre-
conceptionstointerferewithyourclient’sfocusingonwhatthey
wanttotellyouhowtheywanttotellit.Thinkcarefullyabout
thequestionsyouask,yourpurposeinaskingthem.（2）Theycanno
tnotbeconnected.Themindisnotathing.Itisaconcept,an
ideathathumanshavecreatedaboutwhatsomepeopleisinourhe
ad.3.老师您好，从学习者角度说，心理咨询师的成长过程必不可少的需要读很多书，学习建立很多的学术思想、知识系统与技术概念。那么，
咨询师如何从自我固化的思维与认知经验中真正做到“Notknowing”和“Notthinking”而只是过程中的自然流动与应对
。答：这些都是很好的问题。各种各样的学习都非常好-----它帮助我们思考------重要的是要记住，你从书本和培训中所学到的东西并
不是固定的信息、事实或做某事的正确方法。把你认为自己知道的东西"轻描淡写"或放在"括号里"-----所以“不知道”（not-
knowing）是一种对知识的态度，以及为什么和如何使用它。Theseareallsuchgoodquestions.
Allkindsoflearningareverygood–ithelpsusthink–importa
nttokeepinmindthatwhatyouarelearningfrombooksandtrai
ningisnotfixedinformation,facts,ortherightwaytodosome
thing.Holdwhatyouthinkyouknow“lightly”orin“parentheses”
–sonot-knowingisanattitudeaboutknowledgeandwhyandhow
youuseit.4.问题：贺林老师在做每一场对话前都让自己放下预期，以全然放空的状态让对话流动，时刻保持着觉知和对语音及各种
信息的敏感性，这种放空的状态是有意为之的吗？如何达到每次对话前自己是完全放空的状态？答：做一个深呼吸，处于这样一种心态：不要觉得应
该发生什么事情；对你正在交谈的人感到好奇-----与他们一起工作。使用你的社会交往"技能"。Takeadeepbreath
andbeinthestateofmindofnot-having?anideaaboutwhatsho
uldhappen,becuriousaboutthepeopleyouaretalking-working
with.Useyoursocial“skills.”5.问题：很想听老师分享更多合作对话中的＂无为、无我＂与老子哲学的
关系与区别或链接？答：我需要做一些进一步的阅读，并且与海波谈谈，再来回应这个问题。谢谢你。Ineedtodosomere
adingandtalkingwithHaibotorespondtothisquestion.Thanky
ou.6.问题：（1）合作对话的发展有没有不同的阶段，请问老师在创立合作对话疗法的过程中是否经历过哪些重要阶段？（2）请教老师是从
什么时候开始分享合作对话的？最初做分享时老师的初衷可否分享下？多年下来，这个初衷会有变化吗？如果有它是一种怎样的变化老师可否分享下
？（3）多年合作对话课程分享与培训，对老师来说有哪些感想和收获，这样的分享给您的生活带来怎样的影响？给这个世界带来了什么？（4）如
果用一句话来描述老师与合作对话的关系，请教老师那会是什么？答：(1)没有阶段-------一直保持着合作对话的哲学立场。没有开始
和结束，也没有固定的步骤。(2)同样，这些都是好问题。我从20世纪70年代就开始做我的工作--我的经验和来自来访者和学习者的反馈
（就像大家给我问题）影响着我的思维和工作的变化。下次我有机会和你们在一起时，我会做出更多的回应。(3)我认为我逐渐成为一个"更
好"的人和公民，我希望对我的工作感兴趣的人也能发现，他们不仅作为一个专业人员，而且作为一个人也在不断成长和发展。(4)我们是终
生的伙伴，互相影响。(1)Nostages–youarealwaysmaintainingthephilosop
hicalstance.Trytothinkthatthereisnobeginningandending
andstepstotake.(2)Again,theseareallgoodquestions.Ihave
beendoingwhatIdosincethe1970s–myexperiencesandfeedba
ckfromclientsandlearners(likeourquestions)influencehowm
ythinkingandworkingchanges.NexttimeIamwithyou,Iwillr
espondmore.(3)IthinkIhavebecomea“better”personandcitize
nandIhopethatpeoplewhoareinterestedinmyworkalsofind
thattheycontinuetodevelopnotonlyasaprofessionalbutalso
asaperson.(4)Wearelifelongpartners,influencingeachother
.7.问题：老师书中写到治疗室发生的事后如何改变一个人在外的改变？如何判断对话成功和失败？和朋友吃饭和治疗陌生人对话有什么不同？
答：哦，这么多好问题------下次我在北京的时候可以谈谈这个问题吗。简短的回答是，应该没有什么区别。重要的是要牢记我们的话语如
何影响他人。所以，要继续深思熟虑，小心谨慎，即使是在玩乐的时候。Oh,somanygreatquestions–may
ItalkaboutthisnexttimeIaminBeijing.Theshortansweris
thatthereshouldbenodifference.Itisimportanttokeepinm
indhowourwordsaffectothers.So,continuetobethoughtfulan
dcareful,evenwhenhavingfun.8.问题一。贺琳老师把合作对话实践的14个注意点讲的很清楚，我觉
得内在的哲学基础这些非常重要。请问除了咨询关系Client之外，在工作场合包括公司和学校应用，要做什么样的改变。譬如我觉得7.日
常化生活化就非常困难，有可能lostyourself?完全无我？问题二：合作对话实践跟道家无我，跟佛家色即是空有对应关系吗，效
果上跟孔子的叩其两端而竭焉非常像。谢谢您！答：（1）试着牢记，你要始终以这种哲学立场而"生活"（存在）。是的，这很难，甚至对我
来说。有时，我也会忘记，变得不太思考。（2）我认为有，但你提到的这些我需要更多的学习和了解。我不确定我们是否能完全放空，但我们可以
暂时把一些事情放在一个"盒子"里。（1）Trytokeepinmindthatyouwanttoalway
s“live”thephilosophicalstance.Yes,itisdifficult,evenfor
me.Sometimes,Iforgetandbecometoonon-thinking.（2）Ithinkt
hereis,butthisissomethingIneedtostudymore.Iamnotsur
ewecaneverbefullyempty,butwecanputthingsina“box”fo
rawhile.9.问题一：课程中贺琳老师讲到的一个例子：对话中来访说自己有了变化，不知道变化哪儿来的，但能接受这种对话，感觉
老师没有做任何特殊的事情。——对于来访的这个“不知道”，学了很久的合作对话，我也感觉自己好像知道也好像不知道。我的问题是：老师如何
看来访对于自己变化的“不知道”？作为咨询师，面对来访的不知道的表达，特别有我“知道”的表达的冲动，所以好奇来访表达“不知道”的时候
，贺琳老师的回应。问题二：“除非建立了信任开放公平的关系，能安全的互换信息，否则你给的建议和方案都是对对方的侮辱蔑视或挑战”——关
于这点深深认同。这个会让我联想到咨询中家长和孩子之间的沟通和教育问题也总是在这个建议和指导上生出很多矛盾冲突。我的问题是：是否咨询
中对于家长和孩子的这种沟通方式的调整也需要他们对合作对话进行学习？还是只在合作对话的过程中因为有相互的影响和生发新的思路和想法而顺
其自然的应对他们之间的沟通教育问题？答：（1）你可以表达你的想法，但要注意你的表达方式和时机。应该把它（你的想法）作为思考或谈论某
事的一种可能方式提供给对方。我们不可能总是把我们的经历写成文字-------而且，我不知道，这样做是否重要。（2）人们告诉我，学习
合作对话实践帮助他们成为更好的父母。不幸的是，不是所有的父母都能学到我们认为有价值的东西。我还发现，有些家长自然而然地做了我们所学
到的东西--同样，这是一个非常好的问题，值得我和在场的家长们做出更多的回应。（1）Youcanexpressyouride
a,butbecarefulhowandwhenyouexpressit.Itshouldbeoffer
edasapossiblewaytothinkortalkaboutsomething.Wecannot
alwaysputourexperiencesintowords–and,isitimportanttod
oso.Idon’tknow.（2）Peoplehavetoldmethatlearningcollabora
tive-dialogicpracticehashelpedthembebetterparents.Unfortu
nately,notallparentscanlearnwhatwefindvaluable.Ialsof
indthatsomeparentsdonaturallywhatwelearntodo–again,a
verygoodquestionandonethatdeservesmoreresponsefrommea
ndtheideasofparentsintheroom.10.问题：贺琳老师是家庭治疗大师，想了解合作对话对于青少
年厌学拒学自伤自残相关的青少年家庭议题是如何应对的？答：哦，我不是大师。对于青少年，他们通常不认为自己有问题，或者在我的经验里，即
使他们认为自己有问题，也通常不是父母、老师或专业人士定义的问题。首先，与青少年建立良好的关系是很重要的。了解他们的情况。要有好奇心
，但不是通过问一些隐藏着你自己看法的问题。你不可能隐藏你的目的-----青少年通常比我们更聪明。他们通常不愿意参加咨询/治疗，所以
我认为这是首先要解决的问题。他们有时是被强制的，你也如此。拒绝上学和自我伤害是很严重的。试着把这些行为看作是青少年沟通的方式---
--我想知道他们想沟通什么，但我不会直接去问。同样，所有这些问题，都值得我做更多的回答。我希望我简短的回答在某种程度上是有帮助的。
Oh,Iamnotamaster.Withadolescents,theyusuallydonotthin
ktheyhaveaproblem,orImyexperienceistheythinktheydo,
itisnotusuallytheproblemtheparents,teachers,orprofessio
nalsdefine.First,itisimportanttodevelopagoodrelationshi
pwiththeadolescent.Learnaboutthem.Becurious,butnotbya
skingquestionsthathaveopinionshiddeninthem.Youcannothid
eyouragenda–theadolescentisusuallysmarterthanweare.Th
eyusuallydon’twanttobeincounseling/therapysoIthinkthat
isthefirstproblemtoaddress.Theyaremandatedandyouarea
lso.Schoolrefusalandself-harmareserious.Trytothinkofth
esebehaviorsastheadolescentswayofcommunicatingsomething–
Iwonderwhattheyaretryingtocommunicate,butIdonotaskt
hatdirectly.Again,allofthesequestions,deservealongerresp
onsefromme.Ihopemybriefresponsesarehelpfulinsomesmall
way.附：Question:I?don''tquiteunderstandthemeaningoftheword
“cluster”,whatisthedifferencebetween“cluster”and“group”?
Canyoutellmemoreaboutthemeaningofthisword??Group,for
me,issuchanoverusedword.?People“cluster”–cometogethert
otalkaboutatopicorquestionofinterestforall.?Question1:
Does“not-knowing”meannopreconceptionsatall?Ifthereisno
preconceptionatall,whywouldaconsultantaskacertainquest
ioninacertainsituationandnotanotherone??Not-knowingisa
concept–itisimportanttobeawareofyourpre-conceptionsand
howtheyinfluencehowyoulistenandunderstand,andinfluence
yourresponse.Inotherwords,itiseasyforyourpre-conception
stointerferewithyourclient’sfocusingonwhattheywanttot
ellyouhowtheywanttotellit.Thinkcarefullyaboutthequest
ionsyouask,yourpurposeinaskingthem.?Question2:therelati
onshipbetweenthebodyandthemind.Howisthisseenfromthep
erspectiveofcollaborativedialogue?Howarethesetwoconnected
??Theycannotnotbeconnected.Themindisnotathing.Itisa
concept,anideathathumanshavecreatedaboutwhatsomepeople
isinourhead.?Question?1:Hiteacher,fromthelearner''sperspe
ctive,thegrowthprocessofcounselorsindispensablyrequiresre
adingalotofbooksandlearningtobuildalotofacademicidea
s,knowledgesystemsandtechnicalconcepts.Then,howcanacoun
selortrulyachieve"Not-knowing"and"Not-thinking"fromthese
lf-consolidatedthinkingandcognitiveexperience,butjustthen
aturalflowandresponseintheprocess??Theseareallsuchgood
questions.Allkindsoflearningareverygood–ithelpsusthin
k–importanttokeepinmindthatwhatyouarelearningfromboo
ksandtrainingisnotfixedinformation,facts,ortherightway
todosomething.Holdwhatyouthinkyouknow“lightly”orin“p
arentheses”–sonot-knowingisanattitudeaboutknowledgeandw
hyandhowyouuseit.?Question:?Beforeeachconversation,profes
sor?Harlene?allowsherselftoletgoofexpectationsandletthe
conversationflowinastateoftotalemptiness,alwaysbeingawa
reandsensitivetothevoiceandvariousinformation.HowcanI
achieveastateofcompleteemptyingbeforeeachconversation??Ta
keadeepbreathandbeinthestateofmindofnot-having?anid
eaaboutwhatshouldhappen,becuriousaboutthepeopleyouare
talking-workingwith.Useyoursocial“skills.”?Question:Iwou
ldliketohearmoreabouttherelationshipanddifferencebetwee
n"Wu-wei,Wu-self(no-doing,no-self)"?from?LaoTzu''sphilosophy?
and?collaborativedialogues.?Ineedtodosomereadingandtalkin
gwithHaibotorespondtothisquestion.Thankyou.?6.?Question
:(1)Aretheredifferentstagesinthedevelopmentofcollaborati
vedialogue,anddidyougothroughanyimportantstagesinthep
rocessofcreatingcollaborativedialoguetherapy??Nostages–yo
uarealwaysmaintainingthephilosophicalstance.Trytothinkt
hatthereisnobeginningandendingandstepstotake.?(2)Pleas
etellmewhendid?you?starttoshare?(toteach)?collaborativedi
alogue?Canyoushareyourinitialthoughtswhenyoufirststarte
dsharing?Hasthisintentionchangedovertheyears?Ifso,what
kindofchangehasitbeen??Again,theseareallgoodquestions.
IhavebeendoingwhatIdosincethe1970s–myexperiencesand
feedbackfromclientsandlearners(likeourquestions)influenc
ehowmythinkingandworkingchanges.NexttimeIamwithyou,I
willrespondmore.?(3)Whatdoyouthinkandwhathaveyougaine
dfromsharingandtrainingincollaborativedialoguecoursesove
rtheyears,andwhatimpacthasthissharinghadonyourlife?W
hathasit?broughttotheworld??IthinkIhavebecomea“better”
personandcitizenandIhopethatpeoplewhoareinterestedin
myworkalsofindthattheycontinuetodevelopnotonlyasapro
fessionalbutalsoasaperson.?(4)Ifyoucoulduseonesentence
todescribetherelationshipbetweenyouandCollaborativeDialo
gue,whatwoulditbe??Wearelifelongpartners,influencingeach
other.?Question:?Inyourbook,yousaidsometimesclientchanged
lateraftercounselinginthetherapyroom,howdidthatchange
happen?Howdoyouevaluatethesuccessandfailureofaconversa
tion?Whatisthedifferencebetweenhavingdinnerwithafriend
andhavingaconversationwithastrangerclient?Thankyou,?Harl
ene!?Oh,somanygreatquestions–mayItalkaboutthisnexttim
eIaminBeijing.Theshortansweristhatthereshouldbenodi
fference.Itisimportanttokeepinmindhowourwordsaffectot
hers.So,continuetobethoughtfulandcareful,evenwhenhaving
fun.?Question1.you?has?madethe14pointsthatmatterforcoll
aborativedialoguepracticeveryclear,andIthinktheinnerphi
losophicalfoundationoftheseisveryimportant.Whatkindofch
angesshouldwemakeintheworkplace,includingcompanyandscho
olapplications,?For?example,Ithinkitisverydifficulttopra
cticethephilosophicalstance:7.dailylife,isitpossibleto
loseyourself???Trytokeepinmindthatyouwanttoalways“live
”thephilosophicalstance.Yes,itisdifficult,evenforme.So
metimes,Iforgetandbecometoonon-thinking.?Question2:Isthe
reacorrespondencebetweenthepracticeofcollaborativedialogu
eandTaoism''sno-selfandBuddhism''scolorisemptiness,whichi
sverysimilarineffecttoConfucius''knockingatbothendsoft
hespectrum.Thankyou.?Ithinkthereis,butthisissomethingI
needtostudymore.Iamnotsurewecaneverbefullyempty,bu
twecanputthingsina“box”forawhile.?Question1:In?your?v
ideo?presentation,?youtalkedaboutanexample:inthedialogue,
thevisitorsaidthatheorshehadchanged,anddidnotknowwhe
rethechangecamefrom,butcouldacceptthedialogueandfeltt
hattheteacherdidnotdoanythingspecial.--Ihadbeenstudyin
gcollaborativedialogueforalongtime,andIfeltasifIknew
andasifIdidn''tknow.Myquestionis:Howdo?you?perceivethe
"notknowing"ofthevisitorabouthisorherchanges?Asacoun
selor,Ihavetheurgetoexpressmy"knowing"whenfacedwitha
visitor''sexpressionofnotknowing,soIamcuriousabout?your?r
esponsewhenavisitorexpressesher"notknowing".Youcanexpres
syouridea,butbecarefulhowandwhenyouexpressit.Itshoul
dbeofferedasapossiblewaytothinkortalkaboutsomething.
Wecannotalwaysputourexperiencesintowords–and,isitimpo
rtanttodoso.Idon’tknow.???Question2:"Unlessatrusting,o
penandfairrelationshipisestablished,whereinformationcanb
esafelyexchanged,theadviceandsolutionsyougiveareinsulti
nganddismissivetotheotherperson"-Ideeplyagreewiththi
spoint.Thiswillremindmeofthecommunicationandeducationi
ssuesbetweenparentsandchildrenincounselingalsoalwaysgive
risetomanyconflictsandconflictsonthisadviceandguidance
.Myquestionis:Isitpossiblethattheadjustmentofthiscomm
unicationstylebetweenparentsandchildrenincounselingalsor
equiresthemtolearnaboutcollaborativedialogue?Orisitonly
intheprocessofcollaborativedialoguethattheycannaturally
respondtothecommunicationandeducationproblemsbetweenthem
becauseofthemutualinfluenceandnewideasandthoughtsthat
emerge??Peoplehavetoldmethatlearningcollaborative-dialogic
practicehashelpedthembebetterparents.Unfortunately,notal
lparentscanlearnwhatwefindvaluable.Ialsofindthatsome
parentsdonaturallywhatwelearntodo–again,averygoodque
stionandonethatdeservesmoreresponsefrommeandtheideaso
fparentsintheroom.?10.?Question:?youare?master?of?familyth
erapist,and?I?wouldliketoknowhowcollaborativedialoguework
swithadolescentfamilyissuesrelatedtoadolescent?refusingtoschool?andself-harm??Oh,Iamnotamaster.Withadolescents,theyusuallydonotthinktheyhaveaproblem,orImyexperienceistheythinktheydo,itisnotusuallytheproblemtheparents,teachers,orprofessionalsdefine.First,itisimportanttodevelopagoodrelationshipwiththeadolescent.Learnaboutthem.Becurious,butnotbyaskingquestionsthathaveopinionshiddeninthem.Youcannothideyouragenda–theadolescentisusuallysmarterthanweare.Theyusuallydon’twanttobeincounseling/therapysoIthinkthatisthefirstproblemtoaddress.Theyaremandatedandyouarealso.Schoolrefusalandself-harmareserious.Trytothinkofthesebehaviorsastheadolescentswayofcommunicatingsomething–Iwonderwhattheyaretryingtocommunicate,butIdonotaskthatdirectly.Again,allofthesequestions,deservealongerresponsefromme.Ihopemybriefresponsesarehelpfulinsomesmallway.?Thankyou.And,thankyouHaiboforsendingthequestions.Harlene |
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