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法国梅村 2014年5月 Is there life after death? 死后有生命吗？
Subtitles by the Amara.org community
英语佛教（公众号id：BuddhisminEnglish）英语世界的佛教
transcript
法国梅村，2014年5月 一行禅师答问: 死后有生命吗？
(In French) So our question is: Is there life after death?
所以我们的问题是：死后有生命吗？
Our question is: Is there life after death?
我们的问题是：死后有生命吗？
Two persons, one question?
两个人一个问题？
(Laughter)（众笑）
Life is always with death at the same time,
生命是一直和死亡一并同在的，
not only before!
不只是之前！
And...
还有...
It cannot be separated from death.
它不能和死亡分开。
Where there is life, there is death. And where there is death, there is life.
有生命亦有死亡。有死亡亦有生命。
And this needs a little bit of meditation.
这是需要一点禅修的。
In Buddhism we speak of 'interbeing'.
在佛法力，我们说「相互而存」。
'Interbeing'.
「相互而存」。
It means that you cannot be by yourself alone.
这就是说你不能自处。
You have to inter-be with the other side.
你得和另外一边互存。
It is like the left and the right.
就像是左和右。
If the right is not there, the left cannot be.
如果右不在，左也不能存在。
If the left is not there, the right cannot be.
如果左不在，右也不能存在。
It is not possible to take the left away from the right.
是不能将左从右拿走的。
It is not possible to take the right away from the left.
是没有可能将右从左拿走的。
Suppose I ask one of you to come and bring the left to the Lower Hamlet
假设我叫你们其中一个人前来，将左带到梅村下村去；
and one of you to bring the right to the New Hamlet.
其中一个人将右带到梅村新村去。
It is impossible!
这是不可能的！
The right and the left,
they want to be together.
左和右，他们要在一起。
Because without the other, you cannot be.
因为没有了彼此，你是不能存在的。
It is very clear.
这是很清楚的。
Like the above and the below.
就像上和下。
The above cannot be there if there is no below.
如果没有了下，上是不能存在的。
And that is what we call in Buddhism: 'interbeing', 'interêtre'.
那就是佛法中的
「相互而存」，「 'interêtre'」。
They have to be there at the same time.
它们必须同时并在。
So when God said:
当上帝说：
'Let the light be,'
「要有光，」
the light said:
光说：
'Well I have to wait, my God, I have to wait.'
「我得等，我的上帝，我得等。」
God: 'What are you waiting for?'
上帝：「你在等什么？」
Light: 'I am waiting for darkness to manifest together.'
光：「我在等待黑暗以便一起显现。」
Because light and darkness,they inter-are.
因为光和暗，它们是相存的。
And God said:
'Darkness is already there.'
然后上帝说：「黑暗已经在那里了。」
And the light said: 'In that case, I am already there.'
光就说：「那么的话，
我也就已经在那里了。」
So that is true with good and evil,
所以善和恶也是同样的道理，
before and after,
之前和之后，
here and there, you and I.
这里和那里，你和我。
I cannot be there without you.
没有你我不可能在那里。
The lotus flower cannot be there without the mud.
莲花没有了泥是不可能在那里的。
Without the mud, there is no lotus possible.
没有了泥，莲花是不可能存有的。
There is no happiness without suffering.
没有痛苦就没有快乐。
There is no life without death.
没有死亡就没有生命。
And when a biologist observes...
而当一位生物学家观察...
the body of a human being,
人类的身体时，
he sees that life and death happen at the same time in the body.
他们看到了生命和死亡
同时在身体内发生着。
In this very moment,
在此时此刻，
thousands and thousands of cells are dying.
千千万万的细胞正在死亡。
When you scratch yourself like this, many dry cells fall down.
当你这么抓自己时，许多干细胞会掉落下来。
They have died.
它们会死亡。
And many cells die every moment of our daily life.
我们日常生活中的每一刻
都有许多细胞死亡。
And because you are so busy, you do not notice that you are dying.
因为你那么忙碌，
你没有注意到你在死亡。
If they die, you are dying!
如果他们死，你也在死！
You think that you are not dying yet,
你以为你还没有死，
that you have to wait 50 or 70 years in order to die.
你要等到50或70岁才会死。
That is not true!
那是不真实的！
Death is not down the road, death is right here and right now.
死亡不是在日后才发生的，
死亡就在此时此刻发生着。
So 'la mort', death, is happening right in the here and now, at each moment.
所以「la mort」，死亡，
就发生于此时此刻，在每一刻。
And because of the death of a number of cells,
因为许多细胞的死亡，
the birth of other cells is possible.
所以其他细胞的再生是有可能的。
So many cells are being born in the present moment.
因此有许多细胞正在此刻新生了。
And we do not have the time to organize a happy birthday for them.
我们没有时间为它们主办庆生。
So the fact is that, scientifically speaking,
所以事实是，以科学的角度来说，
you can already see birth and death happening in the present moment.
你已经看到了，生死正在此刻发生。
And because of the dying of cells, the birth of cells is possible.
因为细胞的死亡，细胞的新生是有可能的。
Because the birth of cells is possible, the dying of cells is possible.
因为细胞的新生是有可能的，
细胞的死亡是有可能的。
They lean on each other to be.
它们依偎着彼此而存在。
So you are experiencing dying and being born
所以你每一刻正在
in every moment.
体验着生死。
Do not think you were only born on that moment.
不要以为你只是在那一时刻生出来的。
That moment written on your birth certificate
写在你出生证明书上的一时刻
is just one moment.
只是其中一个时刻。
And that is not the first moment.
而那不是第一个时刻。
Before that moment, there were moments you were already there.
在那一时刻之前，还有许多时刻你就已经存在那里了。
Before you were conceived in the womb of your mother,
在你未在母胎前，
you had already been there in your father and your mother
你已经以另外一种形态
in another form.
存在于你的父亲和母亲里了。
So there is no birth, no real beginning and there is no ending.
所以没有生，没有真正的开始
也没有真正的结束。
So when we know that birth and death are always together,
当我们知道生和死一直都是同在一起时，
we are no longer afraid of dying,
我们就再也不会害怕死亡了，
because at the moment of dying, there is birth also.
因为死的那一刻，也有生。
(French) Birth comes with death.
（法语）生与死
They cannot be separated.
它们不可拆散。
This is a very deep meditation.
这是非常深入的禅修。
And you should not meditate with your brain alone on this.
你不要单是从你的头脑来观照这点。
You have to observe life...
你要在你日常生活中
during your daily life.
观察生命。
And you see birth and death inter-are in everything:
你就会看到生和死在万物中是相互而存的。
trees, animals, the weather, matter, energy...
树木、动物、天气、物质、能量...
And scientists have already pronounced,
科学家也说过：
there is no birth and no death.
无生无死。
(French) Nothing is created, nothing is lost.
没有什么被创造、没有什么被毁灭。
There is only transformation.
只有转化。
So transformation is possible, is real.
所以转化是可能的、是真实的。
And birth and death are not real.
而生死不是真实的。
What you call birth and death are only transformation.
你所谓的生和死都只是转化。
When you form a chemical reaction,
当你形成了一个化学反应，
you bring a number of substances together.
你将一些物质放在一起，
And when the substances meet each other there is a transformation.
当这些物质交合就有一个转化。
And sometimes you think a substance is no longer there,
有时你以为物质已经不在那里了，
it has vanished.
它消失了。
But in fact, looking deeply, you see the substance is still there 但事实上，深入观照，
你就会照见物质还在那里
under another form.
它以另一种形态呈现。
When you look at the blue sky you do not see your cloud anymore.
当你看着蓝天时，你就看不到你的云朵了。
You think your cloud has died,
你以为你的云朵已经死了，
but in fact your cloud continues always in the form of the rain and so on.
可是事实上你的云朵是永远继续以雨水的形态存在等等。
So birth and death are seen only on the surface.
所以生和死只是以外表来看。
If you go down, deep down, there is no birth and no death.
如果你往深处、深入地，
是没有生和死的。
There is only continuation.
只有延续。
And when you touch the continuation,
the nature of no birth and no death,
而当你接触到这延续性，无生无死的本性，
you are no longer afraid of dying.
你就再也不会害怕死亡了。
And not only the Buddhists speak of no birth and no death,
不只是佛教徒说无生无死，
but science also speaks of no birth and no death.
连科学也说无生无死。
They can exchange their findings. It is very interesting.
他们对于他们的发现进行了交流。很有趣。
This is an invitation for us to live our lives more deeply.
这是给予我们的一个邀请来深入地过我们的人生。
So that we can touch our true nature of no birth and no death.
那么我们就可以接触到我们无生无死的真实本性。
And, I know, Thay's answer...
而且，我知道，老师的答案...
is only an invitation to practice.
只是一个修习的邀请。
We have to live our lives more mindfully, with concentration 我们要更有觉知性，
用专注力来过我们的生活，
so that we can be deeply in touch with what is happening.
那么我们就可以深入地接触所有在发生的事。
Then we have a chance to touch the true nature of reality:
那我么就有机会接触事实的真实本性。
no birth and no death.
无生无灭。
And that is described in Buddhism with the term 'Nirvana'.
那是佛教所形容的「涅槃」。
'Nirvana' is no birth and no death.
「涅槃」即是无生无灭。
And in Christianity you may call it:
基督教你或可称为：
'The Ultimate', 'God'.
「极尽」，「上帝」。
God is our true nature of no birth and no death.
上帝是我们无生无灭的真实本性。
And we do not have to go and find God.
而我们不用去找上帝。
God is our true nature.
上帝是我们的真实本性。
It is like a wave.
就像一个浪。
A wave believes that she is subjected to birth and death.
一个浪相信自己是受到生死支配的。
And every time she comes up and begins to go down,
而每次它随着浪起浪落，
she is afraid of dying.
它害怕死亡。
A wave is afraid of dying.
一个浪害怕死亡。
But if the wave realizes that she is water,
但是如果浪觉悟到它是水，
she is no longer afraid.
它就再也不会害怕死亡了。
Before going up, she is water. Going down, she is water.
浪起时，它是水。浪退后，它是水。
And after going down, she continues to be water.
在浪退后，它还是水。
There is no death.
没有死亡。
So it is very important that the wave does some meditation,
修禅对浪来说是很重要的
and realizes that she is wave, but at the same time she is water.
那能让它悟到它是浪，但与此同时也是水。
And when she knows she is water, she is no longer afraid of dying.
当它知道它是水时，它就再也不会害怕死亡了。
She feels wonderful going up, she feels wonderful going down.
浪起时，它感到美妙，浪退时，它感到美妙。
She is free from fear.
它是毫无恐惧的。
And our cloud is also like that, they are not afraid of dying.
而我们的云朵也一样，它们不害怕死亡。
They know that, if they are not a cloud, they can be something else,
因为它们知道，如果它们不是一朵云，它们可以是其它的什么，
equally beautiful, like the rain or the snow.
同样的美丽，比如是雨水或是雪花。
So the wave does not go and look for water.
所以浪不会去找水。
She does not have to go and search for water,
它不需要去找水，
because she is water in the here and now.
因为在此时此刻它就是水。
The same thing is true with God.
对于上帝也一样。
We do not have to...
我们不需要...
look for God.
去找上帝。
We are God, God is our true nature.
我们是上帝，上帝是我们的真实本性。
You do not have to go and look for Nirvana.
你不用去找涅槃。
Nirvana is our ground.
涅槃是我们的基础。
That is the teaching of the Buddha.
那是佛陀的教义。
And a number of us have been able to realize that.
而我们其中一些人已经能够悟到了。
We enjoy the present moment.
我们享受当下这刻。
We know that it is impossible for us to die.
我们知道我们是不可能死亡的。
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